Interview Transcription

Appendix B

Interview Transcription

I: In your role within your organization, how can you define mental health and wellbeing?

P1: First of all, mental health is what we all have. I think nowadays everybody knows somebody with mental health issue friend, loved one, neighbor, relative, yourself. Some days we feel good and everythings great, other days are harder to get through. And on those days, it is extremely important for employees to feel supported and normalize conversations about mental health. So from a corporate point of view, we hope that with our actions, employees can build up their resilience, live fulfilling, and balanced lives where their work does not affect their mental health. In our company, we have had people with both severe health and mental health issues and this experience pushed us to provide our employees with even more support. Its very much about looking after the rights of people with poor mental health and particularly around stigma and discrimination, which for them can either help or hinder their recovery. So thats our main goal, is tackling stigma and discrimination in all its forms. So we have three priority areas, one is the workplace, the other one is children and young people and the other one is mental health and care places themselves, because the one thing that people with poor mental health have told us that those three areas as well as within their own families and friends, circles, are the areas in which they either most experience stigma and discrimination or where they would seek support.

I: Can you maybe go a little more into detail about what you do in the workplace? What your main programs are, initiatives maybe.

P1: Employers used to think they couldnt do anything to address workplace mental-health issues. In the workplace, we have a wellbeing program, there are four stages within that the first page is pretty basic, you just sign up on our homepage, on our newsletter, you get newsletter updates, the second stage really is where I come in and where we want workplaces to engage more with (programme) and look at how mentally healthy their workplace is and what kind of environment they work in. So we start by doing a mental health check to find out where the organization is at the moment. We also have a survey, which is an anonymous, confidential survey of five seconds, so we first of all look at the response rate..you know..the response rate in comparison to the number of employees they have in the organization. Then, we look at recruitment, so what are the areas where people who have tried to get back in the workplace have told us it is most difficult to get a foot in the door and to get through the interview stage. So we look at the recruitment stage and what kind of policies the organizations have in place are they fair and equal for everyone? And the second stage we then go to look at is the workplace itself, so what kind of support..so the questions are all tickbox answers... so the questions that we would ask in the workplace would be things like do you feel that you get the proper support from your manager, are the managers supportive? Do they know how to deal with someone with a mental health problem? We talk about that first conversation... Are you able to go speak to someone in the workplace or would you be concerned to speak to someone in the workplace for fear of losing your job, being passed over for promotion, being

moved to another post that kind of thing. And we look at, do you feel, we always ask would you like a better understanding of mental health and with that we always get a yes, in all of the surveys weve done. So its about, is the workplace equipped to deal with mental health problems, do they know the right questions to ask, do they recognize the signs at an early stage? Before someone becomes very ill in the workplace so they can put in reasonable adjustments at an early stage that may help that person becoming very ill and may actually help that person to a quick recovery.So theres in work and then we look at training, what kind of training organizations offer around mental health. So we look particularly at managers, what training line managers have had and when theyve had ithave they had any in the past three years? And we look at returning to work, going back into the workplace after a long period of ill health and the support that they should be offered and the support that they are offered when going back into the workplace, what kind of reasonable adjustments are put in place for them. I think its much more understood in terms of physical problems, what kind of reasonable adjustments are or can be made, maybe not so much in terms of mental health, what physical adjustments can mean to someone. And the last section really is about the whole culture of the organization, so it looks at the staff relations with their managers but also with their colleagues, so when someone has a mental health problem, are they included in the company culture, or do they find that they can be at times excluded or do they feel that they cannot talk mental health with their colleagues or again, what kind of reactions do they receive. And thats all about, and people tell us...they quite often wait, they suss the place out first before they feel that they know if they would get a bad or a good reaction when theyre talking openly about their mental health.

I: You just hinted at that, but because disclosure is such a big topic, maybe in your experience with working with organizations and people who have been affected, can you see a trend of whether disclosure happens more so within employment or before people are employed?

P1: I think I would say probably, once theyre in the job. Through the interviews that we have done at the pre-employment stage, its all about what kind of questions they will be asked... so for example, when theyre filling in their application, very view of them actually tick that they have a disability, which they could do and it may actually help them get an interview but theres still very few people at that stage who would to that openly. Again, in the interview, theyre...certainly in the public sector, the recruitment progress is very straight forward and very well known and followed to the latter, but there are ways for people can ask, for example if theres a gap in your employment history, you could ask what were you doing during that period of time? and then someone either needs to reveal that they were off with a long-term mental health illness or theyre faced with...and at that stage when people have done that, they saw the shutters come down with the recruitment panel so theyve known almost immediately that by revealing that, they have lost their chances of getting the job. And for us, its very much about peoples rights, if you have the experience and the qualifications to do a job, thats what you should be interviewed on, not on your medical history.

I: I want to return to the corporate culture topic as you have mentioned it before, how would you describe your organizational culture in relation, of course, to mental health and wellbeing?

P1: That, what we are working in? (laughs) Ahh interesting! I think like many organizations, we put ourselves under a lot of stress I think, we put on, you know, we have huge workloads, there are many demands on us, on our time and on our funding. There are many pressures on us to deliver from our funders. I think we are not immune to... I would say were not the perfect organization but we also recognize the field that we work in and we are supportive of each other but that doesnt mean that we dont hit periods of relative stress within the organization. But, you know, were a team that includes people with mental health problems, just like any other organization and we know how to support people, I believe we do have very good support from our managers, we do have a very good understanding of what mental health is so I think we are in a position to be able to say I cant keep on doing this and then we need to sit around and discuss it..we do get good support from our senior managers, which I think is probably the most important thing. I think in all organizations, the culture begins at top so that if the directors or senior managers arent on board or are putting lots of pressure on the line managers below them, the line managers wont be able to support someone when theyre getting the pressures to perform themselves. From that perspective, we are a good team, we know how to come through the hard times but we are very aware also that everyones mental health within the team is different and sometimes, you know, people need extra support too.

I: Does your organization have a formal policy that everyone is aware of, on mental health in the workplace within your organization?

P1: (Title of organization) is part of (larger organization), so all our policies are (their) policies. They dont have a mental health policy, they do have other policies which cover other things like stress, behavior and stigma. So like other organizations, they do have policies that cover areas of that but they dont have mental health policy... which, for a mental health organization is a bit of a gap actually I think.

I: But you did mention support earlier so maybe you could give a little more detail on some of the practices that would be taking place or some accommodations that would be made...?

P1: There is an EAP and a counselling program if people want to access that for anything. I mean the procedure is really going around working with your line manager or if you cant work with your line manager, then someone else from within the organization. What other HR policies....? Like every organization... I mean were a small organization really but (larger organization) has 700 employees and there are many policies on our intranet, how and when people access them is another story. And I think that goes for us as well. I think when developing our program I did look at (larger organizations) policies and took some of them as well and some of them are quite good but there are things that could be tightened up a bit and I think theyre aware of that as well.

I: As you mentioned counceling, I was kind of..when I looked at the literature, there was a distinction between preventative measures and general promotion of wellbeing. Keeping that in mind...um is help mostly offered when things are already happening? When people are already too stressed maybe or is there a general promotion that is happening?

P1: I think that the services are there to help people at any stage. (pause) I think that people tend to wait until things get bad before they look to access those kind of services which is a bit of a shame I think because these services offer all kinds of advice when youre having issues at home, for example...if you have financial issues...If you have cater(?) issues...you can go and speak to someone about it and I think for a workplace, its great to have these services in place. Theyre actually a real bonus for people, particularly if you ARE ill and you go to the doctor and the doctor goes I could offer you councelling, and you go Oh I could do the counceling but theres a 16 week wait for the councelling while you can access it almost immediately through your workplace! And I think theres not enough promotion within large organizations and (title of larger organization) is a large organization. We all have access to the (larger organizations) intranet, but you know... you have to hunt about a bit to find what you are looking for so I think there is room for more promotion that can be done... its always difficult I think in a large organization to find the best way to get that information to people and people are not interested when theyre well thats the problem you know? And they forget its there and then, when you start to become ill or when youre starting to have some issues, youre so caught up in them, it takes a while to get to that stage of...you know...recognizing that something can be done. And thats where a good line manager comes in, when theyre able to recognize changes in someones behavior at an early stage, they can then prompt someone about the services that are available to them. I think, thats one of the crucial things within the workplace, is line managers having the training to recognize changes and that might just be someone who is normally at their work early in the morning, they start coming in a bit later or looking a bit disheveled or tired, you know... just any kind of changes within their work pattern and whether thats their performance or something else. That theyre confident and know how to approach someone and have a conversation about that. Its very difficult to approach someone and say you, know...I noticed youre a bit... messy (laughs), youre not as smart as you usually are , Is there something going on? Something you want to talk to me about? And there are good line managers who have had the training and I dont really go along with the notion, that if you get a good , what they call people-person-manager, then you are lucky because for me, it doesnt matter whether youre that kind of person or not, whats your personality is but whether or not you have that training and youre able to do something and I think thats where some managers fall short. They talk about performance, a lot of supervision sessions are all about performance, and at the end of the session, or the very first thing they might say is how are you?..Ok well now lets talk about this or in the end, they may say is that it? Anything else you want to talk about? Ok right, see you in six weeks time. And, I think there needs to be more build into that process, which is much more having a conversation... get to know the person you are managing!

I: speaking from your experience both here and in your work with organizations, what training is being offered to line managers?

P1: Hmmm...I think its quite patchy. So some people will get training in stress management...I think most organizations have stress management, thats the one thing that concerns them most...their absence levels that are caused by stress and thats the one area they look to cover. And some of them do mental health first aid training and others assist training...whatever training they can access for free is usually popular. It depends on what part of the organization, they might have a good training program otherwise its really, it can be very patchy.

I: Coming back to the practices and policies that you have here, that you already said come from further up, do you know in which ways employees were given opportunities to participate in the formulation of these practices and policies or giving feedback to these?

P1: In (title of organization) my understanding is that formulating the policies, it would be HR and the appropriate managers, senior managers but would also include some staff from some of the services. They try hard to have involvement and many of..I mean (organization) employs quite a high proportion of people with mental health problems and they would be involved in formulating some of these policies.

I: Are these getting reviewed?

P1: Yes, every policy has a review date on it.

I: Maybe, in your opinion, what seems to be your colleagues perception of offered support? Do you ever talk about these?

P1: hmm... (pause) not really?... I mean, were quite a new team and...well it hasnt come but I think because of my role and my managers role within the organization, we have a good understanding... (pause). We havent in the past 2,5 years, which is when we have been as we are right now, we havent sat around and had a conversation about what policies (larger organization) has (giggles) but you know, I think there is quite a strong awareness. Were all aware for example of the equality act. Were all aware of the equality act and what that says and because (we) work(s) within a human rights framework, were very aware of what human rights within a workplace look like and thats our kind of guidance as an organization but also as our staff team...you know, we have to walk the walk, you know, as an organization, so in terms of (our organization), I think we do that pretty well.

I: One of your tools to administer general wellbeing within the organization is a survey?

P1: Yes, we do a survey and on completion of the survey, I would produce a report for the organization and that comes in a traffic light system. So each section is given a red, orange or green rating and the report would show that plus have some comments and recommendations at the end of that. And then Id meet with the organization and from there, we would develop an action plan with the organization, picking maybe just two or three of the sections that they need most improvement and then looking at those and then building some kind of an action plan around that so that could be monitored and evaluated. And what we then would be looking for in the organization is some kind of behavioral change and now it takes quite some time to measure behavioral change... so we would want some of their actions to run over a good period of months and then do some initial evaluation and also see how things are carried through. So at the moment, were developing, weve developed some online training, that were going to pilot with some of the organizations were working with now and then gather some immediate response to that training and then go back in three months and see if theyve implemented any of the learning and then again in six months and see, you know, has there been any kind of behavioral change. So that would be the kinds of things that we would be hoping for from these organizations.

I: Maybe as a final question, just because you have been working in this field so long, have you noticed any differences when it comes to size or sector of an organization? Or how long theyve been working together?

P1: Its very varied I would say... (pause) I mean, I think there are themes that come out of the program, that are kind of common themes, these are around training, because I think theres not enough specific training programs out there related to stigma and discrimination, which is why weve developed our own. (pause) the culture of the organization I think in the most...could do with a little improvement...

I: Can you elaborate on that?

P1: I think, just in general around support from managers, support from colleagues, being able to talk to colleagues about it...that can be very mixed. And disclosure is the one that comes up most negatively in a good number of the survey...not in all of them but a fair number of them. Uhm, Recruitment and returning to work tend to get quite a good rating, I would say some of the stuff in work, the culture, the training are the three, which are on different levels and in most organization need the most attention. Some are quite good and some arent although I will say very few come up with red ratings so I think most organizations are aware but you know, its quite patchy...theyre not sure what to do and its quite patchy but I think workplaces are beginning much more to recognize that there is an issue and it has an economic value attached to it, so for us there is an economic argument and there is a moral argument in people not being allowed to work in the workplace AND in fact that people are already in the workplace and maybe they dont recognize how many people with a mental problem already are in their workplace. But I think the economic argument is becoming much stronger and organizations are beginning to recognize it much more. So, were actually doing pretty well and been going for a year now and in the past few months, weve been getting a lot of requests to work with organizations so its still in the early stages but pretty good...its a big, Im sure youve discovered, its a big task and I think the two main areas to work with are human rights, and if they have diversity and equality staff in the organization, they are much more supportive because they deal with the issue a lot more than I think HR are.